Joystiq has an excellent interview with independent
noise harnessers, Trent Reznor and Rob Sheridan, of
Nine Inch Nails fame. Unlikely guests for the 'stiq until they
begin reminiscing about their Pong roots and flame-baiting the
PS3 and Xbox 360 faithful. They also hint at near-term plans to
develop "some entertainment-based video game-type stuff" while
lambasting a record industry looking to Rock Band and Guitar Hero
for its salvation. You get the idea, gaming nerds nerding-out
about gaming only using a few more expletives than moms would
probably like.
The interview goes much deeper than you might have realized. The
"lost questions" are now posted on Dustin Burg's personal blog.
There you'll find Trent (a man who successfully trail-blazed
riches at the dawn of the digital age without major
label support) and Rob discussing modern music distribution
techniques, the limitations of social media for engaging fans,
and software application development on modern smartphones.
Fascinating insight for both consumers and the industry
executives controlling the music, video, and apps we crave from
the artists that create them.
For example, in discussing why people steal music, Trent soberly
notes that, "People aren't stealing music to make money. They
steal because they love music." This isn't about bootlegging
anymore. Accepting this, Reznor chose to engage his fans in a new
way instead of fighting them:
Wait. What? Trent Reznor? As in "Mr. I'll Give Away My
Music," "Mr. Brutal Honesty," Mr. NINE
INCH NAILS? What's he doing on Joystiq?
Prior to taking the concert stage this month, The Trent
Reznor, along with NIN Creative Director Rob Sheridan, opened up
to us about their gaming pasts, the direction they see the
industry headed in, and whether or not Trent will have a role in
shaping that future.
Continue reading for Joystiq's first-ever NINterview
...
Let's start off with an easy question: What kind of gamer are
you?
Trent: I am old, so I was there from the beginning. You know,
from the first Pong
machine. Rob and I are both avid gamers and our friendship kind
of grew out from it. We worked with each other for years and had
a lot of space in our studio, so we collected a lot of arcade
games. We tried to get all the classics like Metroid, Space Invaders, Robotron and others from that era.
I've stayed with gaming throughout the years and have all the
current systems and, yes, I still get excited about release day.
That said, I've become disillusioned in the last few years with
the types of games the big studios put out. They're the same game
over and over again just skinned differently. I'm not a believer
that everyone wants to necessary play a movie, where game play is
overlooked for flashy graphics. That's a disturbing trend.
A game like Robotron ... that separates
the men from the boys.
|
So, you're big into classic arcade gaming?
Trent: Every time we to go to a different country we try to see
if there are still arcades left. The modern Japanese arcade is
not the same, because they're all about these weird resource
management, horse racing, car games that nobody can figure out
what the fuck is happening. Unless you're Japanese, of course. I
had a lot of great times in arcades and I miss that experience. I
know things move forward, but there's something about discovering
an arcade, the aesthetics, the cool cabinet that was built
specifically for that game. The first time I saw Tempest, for example, I was like,
"What the fuck is this?" It looked like some sort of 2001 thing,
it had weird, abstract graphics and sounded cool. I realize times
have changed, but I miss having those three minutes where it's
you versus that machine, sweating like crazy in this finite
countdown to death scenario. A game like Robotron ... that separates the men
from the boys.
You previously mentioned that you came up with a video
game idea and pitched it to big publishers. Tell us about that
game.
Trent: Rob and I have some things on the side that we've been
working on and one of the things we've been talking about doing
is publishing or developing video games. A few years ago we took
that idea to a few of the main publishers, Midway, Activision,
etc. And as first time people in a pitch meeting, it was kind of
depressing. Depressing to see that the people in control of those
studios and publishers are much the same as the people sitting at
record companies.
In a record company, they aren't musicians or people who love
music, they're people who want to sell plastic discs. They think
they have a formula where if they can eliminate the artist from
that equation, even better. You see that in the case of the
Pussycat Dolls and some of the other fabricated crap that's out
there. What we tended to notice in the video game meetings was
that it didn't seem that there were gamers there. It's business
guys who want to turn the company into a profit making machine.
They look at it in terms of numbers, like a Hollywood studio. If
it costs "X" amount to make a game, to compete, then it has to be
a proven franchise or it has to be similar enough to something
they know is going to sell. They don't want to take the
risk.
Can you give us specifics about the game you were trying
to pitch?
Trent: Yeah ... I'll let Rob talk about that, because it's
primarily his idea.
Rob: No ... I don't think we should reveal our trade secrets just
yet.
Trent: Let's just say this. It's a simple idea. It's kind of dumb
and obvious, but could be fun. It'd be something I would buy and
is an idea that takes a chance and bends a few rules. Some of
which have been bent since our initial pitch. The idea has a
juvenile, kind of fun smartass-ness to it, but was ultimately
just too risky for a big company that's more interested in
"Spider-Man 11" or
"Madden: This
Year."
Would you be interested in completely funding a game for
distribution through cheaper channels like Xbox Live Arcade or
PlayStation Network?
Trent: We're working on some things that will start to come into
fruition post Nine Inch Nails and post our tour. That's one of
the reasons I'm stopping the tour, because there are all these
other things that I've been wanting to do that are outside
playing shows. While I enjoy doing Nine Inch Nails and touring,
I've done it enough where there are a lot of other things I'd
like to get into. One of those things ... well, I'm probably
saying too much, because if it doesn't happen then I'll have to
answer questions about it for the next five years. Let's just say
that one of the things that's highest priority for me and Rob is
the development of some entertainment-based video game-type
stuff.
Do you see any similarities between the indie video game
and indie music industries? If so, what advice could you give to
those who want to get noticed in the market?
Trent: From a business perspective, in looking at the video game
world, I haven't applied myself to learning the obstacles or
knowing if it's a bad deal to sell yourself to companies like
Activision or not. I just don't know the details of that. Video
games are a fairly new form of maturing entertainment that really
are art forms. The success of the industry as an art form and a
form of entertainment will be if it can rediscover itself and to
allow for the redefining of what a video game is. Not necessarily
targeting it towards just kids or grandparents or whatever. The
goal is always to keep a level of entertainment, excitement and
innovation.
Again, it seems like games have gone from the golden age -- like
Robotron, which was only
a few kilobytes -- to the era of Wolfenstein and Doom, where a boutique shop of just
ten guys could create an in-depth, quality game in six months to
a year. Now we're at an era of needing hundreds of guys and
millions of dollars and several years to compete with other
A-list titles to attract the big publisher that wasn't as big of
a deal years ago.
Indie implies there's a great creative
atmosphere, but that isn't necessarily true.
|
The publisher equates to the record label and now you have an
ecosystem where, if you want to compete with EA or Activision,
you have to have a mainstream enough title, which turns into a
blockbuster movie scenario.
This, again, is the same thing you see with films where a lot of
generic, big films come out of Hollywood. Things like
G.I. Joe and
Transformers, where you
know what you're getting, they aren't redefining anything, but
they'll make "X" amount of money, because "X" amount of people --
including us -- will see it. But every once in a while, something
different comes along, like a Quentin Tarantino who'll blow the
doors off things and turns the industry on its head. All because
it was exciting, innovative and it came from way over
there.
I like what I'm seeing from Xbox where they're providing a place
to get indie games and you don't have to hack your system or
fight updates to get those games on it. Again, the iPhone is
another platform that's inspiring and allows developers to make a
game in a reasonable amount of time, with little money and allows
for the possibility of something cool. Innovation is the key. I'd
like to say, from a music side, that the indie world guarantees
more innovation, but that isn't necessarily true. The indie world
is trying to be the major label. The people I know on indie
labels are dealing with the same corrupt, broken structures.
Indie implies there's a greater creative atmosphere, but that
isn't necessarily true.
What's your take on Microsoft and Sony entering the
motion-controlled market?
Trent: Me and Rob are both big Nintendo fans for a number of
reasons. Nintendo approaches gaming from a prospective where
Super Mario Bros. is still a classic and doesn't look
dated. Look at any game on the PlayStation 1 that tries to exceed
past the terrible 3D graphics, with their look alike, sound alike
franchise attempts.
With Nintendo, there's this kind of aesthetic that they bring to
their in-house games that makes them feel like art. Where they
aren't trying to be something else, where they have their own
place and are just what they are. I've talked with Rob about
this, about why that kind of game is cool, has a timelessness to
it and isn't trying to be more than what it is. If I were going
to make a video game today I would not put in rendered, 3D
characters that try to look human. You know, where when they talk
their lips are out of sync and have this weird aliased thing
going on. There's that Shadow
Complex game, which does looks cool. Every cut scene has
the eyes rendered pretty well, but there's that terrible voice
acting and the characters look like Fembots.
Rob: The characters usually look better stylized in a way where
it lends itself to the media as opposed to trying to look like
the latest 3D-animated movie, which can create things
super-realistically. When it's done only half way ... well, it's
just kind of weird.
Trent: How that applies to Nintendo, and I'm not saying they
haven't fucked up a few times too, but they have this sense of
here's this game, we're aware of the limitations, but we're going
to make the game great with taste and integrity. Being honest,
I'm not a huge fan of Sony. Their entire strategy behind the
PlayStation is to focus on gaming as an experience last and
getting a Blu-ray player in your living room comes first. Now,
three years later they're trying to release a motion controller
that's a little bit better than the Wii's.
You're aware you're flamebaiting Sony fanboys right
now.
Trent. I don't care. I'm used to controversy. I make a living off
of it. [Laughs.]
The point is, do I think motion controlled gaming is the next big
thing? No. It's an interesting concept, it's cool to have, but
it's an input thing where I don't think that's the future of
gaming. The fact that the Wii came out and has been wildly
successful is because they picked up on the thing I've been
saying all along. They made something simple and fun. It's
something that doesn't compete with "Halo: Whatever-The-Fuck," but is
actually fun and can resonate with a bunch of people in a low
brow way where they didn't focus on how many buttons they could
pop into the controller.
Rob: Waving the Wiimote does get boring after a while, and after
a bit you say, "Just give me a button!" So, when I see
Microsoft's new motion controlled Natal and I see people play it,
I say to myself, "Wow, that technology looks amazing, but how
many people really want to stand there and flail about all the
time?"
I'm used to controversy. I make a living off of
it.
|
The nice thing about the Wii is that, if you want, you can sit
back like a fat-ass and just barely wiggle your wrist to get the
same gameplay effect. With all this motion-controlled stuff,
there's nothing tangible anymore, you aren't touching anything,
you aren't getting force feedback of any kind, and it all just
seems like a tech demo. Something where you use it for a while,
then go, "Just give me the controller back!"
Trent: The strength of motion controllers will be if there's a
killer app that makes a person go, "Fuck yeah, all right!" That's
always what it comes down to. I'm glad there's innovation in that
field and maybe something great will come of it, but I'm not
holding my breath that the technology will redefine gaming.
Rob: There's a difference between praising the Wii as an
important step and saying that motion controls are the greatest
thing in the world. What was great about the Wii is that it
proved that they could do something that goes back to having just
pure fun, that opens up the doors to people like my mom playing.
This is something the fanboys cry about, "But who cares?" Those
casual gamers aren't playing Halo, they aren't bothering you in
your deathmatches. The Wii is just opening up the medium to so
many more people using simple, pure fun. Something that original
arcade games were all about. That doesn't mean it's the future
necessarily, it just means that Nintendo found a tool to open the
door to others and it could go a million different ways from
there.
Trent: I remember the first time I played Wii Tennis, my immediate reaction
was, "Whoa!" Then there's the sound coming out of your hand and
I'm all, "How the fuck?" When you show it to your mom or to your
friends who come over and you see their faces light up -- that's
one of those whoa-moments. One of those moments when you hear a
great song or watch a great movie and get chills. That can be
attained.
Rob: The strength of the Wii isn't so much the motion controller
it's that, regardless what it is, you can hand it over to your
girlfriend. She'll go, "How do I play this?" You just show her,
"Swing it, like this, see?" Two seconds later you're playing a
heated game of tennis.
Are you fans of Rock Band or Guitar
Hero?
Rob: I suck at those games. Pure and simple -- I just suck.
Trent: I dabble around in them and I actually think those games
are fun. As a gamer, it's interesting, fun and surprisingly
rewarding when you get it right. As a musician, who's watching
the record industry look at these games as a type of salvation
... it's laughable. That's just desperate people in the record
business thinking. "Man, we finally have a way to turn people
onto music."
In a good way, a friend of mine who is my age, he has a couple
kids under ten years old who now really like AC/DC and other
classic music. Music they may not have discovered at their age.
It's kind of fun to walk into Best Buy and hear people get
excited about trying to play a Beck song and I don't think that's
a bad thing. I'm kind of excited to see how they did on
Beatles: Rock Band. I
read about that in Wired, and it sounds like they did
an A-list job in creating the depth of the experience.
How are your Rock Band skills?
Trent: I'm not bad, but to be honest with you, I haven't allowed
myself go too deep down the path of perfection.
If I were to set up a rock-off, a game of Rock
Band between you and a band like ... say, Coldplay. Who
would win?
Trent: I don't know, but if it descended into physical violence,
we'd probably win. Those guys strike me as having a lot of time
on the bus tweaking or stringing some riffs together.
[Laughs.]
I'll tell you one thing I can't do that just amazes me is
watching the masters of the Dance Dance Revolution game while I
was in Japan. I got to see some asian kid, where his feet are
moving faster than I can see shit coming down the screen. That's
amazing.
Will we be seeing anymore Nine Inch Nails DLC releases
for Rock Band or Guitar Hero by year's
end?
Trent: No.
Is there a reason?
Trent: I just really never thought about it. When Rock Band first came out there were
a couple songs involved and they asked for more in a content
pack. I just said pick some of the hardest material we have, like
"The Perfect Drug," which has some difficult drums. Then I asked
them to make it as hard as they could possibly make it. That led
to me seeing a couple YouTube videos of people getting high
scores and, well ... that's really it. I feel we did all we
needed to do with it.
What do you think of the upcoming Rock Band Network? Will
you support the service?
Trent: I think that's an interesting idea, but I'd have to think
about it some more. Would I do it for Nine Inch Nails? No -- and
I'll tell you why.
At the end of the day, I don't mind putting my song in a movie I
like. Something like where JJ Abrams calls asking to use a song
in "Fringe." I say, "I like what you do, I know it'll be used
tastefully."
Music isn't a game, it's supposed to be an
emotional kind of experience.
|
If someone hears it in that context, well, okay, that's cool.
Again, at the end of the day, my concern is to write music and
that's what it is. Music isn't a game, it's supposed to be an
emotional kind of experience.
When I heard about Rock
Band and was asked to put some music on it, I did that.
Then I thought, what if, with our next record, we release it on
Rock Band first? The
entire album. But then I thought about it some more and decided
no, because I don't want people remembering it that way. I want
it to be an album, a piece of music and not a game. There's a
balance there, but music should have its own place, because it is
not just about how many people can get it in whatever form.
Activision released special band-specific Guitar
Hero games, like Metallica and Aerosmith.
Have you ever been approached about a NIN edition?
Trent: Not that I know of. I'm not saying this to be modest, but
we aren't in the same demographic or audience size as those
bands. NIN doesn't really fit that mold, because there is no
guitar in a third of our songs and, to be honest with you, I
wouldn't want to do that anyway.
If you had to pick one video game character to identify
with, who would it be?
Trent: Umm, that's a tough one. [Long pause.]
I really can't think of shit right now. Rob, you got one, I know
you do. You're thinking Samus, but she's a chick and you don't
want to say that. [Laughs.]
It's that or Link.
Rob: Yeah, I'd go with Link, actually. That's a good one, because
I was the loner kid who just wanted everyone to leave me alone so
I could play Zelda. It's that lone person experience that kind of
defined who I am.
Trent: Yeah and I can't think of anything.
What about Mario? You said you liked
Nintendo.
Trent: No, he's too common. Too bourgeois.
Well, now that you're moving on from NIN, do you have any
interest in putting your creative energy into video games?
Whether it be development or creating a soundtrack for a
game?
The idea of making a cool game ... now that's
wildly exciting to me!
|
Trent: Yeah, again, Rob and I are working on a project together
that's moving forward and focuses on the creation of content from
a developer's perspective. Would I do music for an everyday game?
Meh. I'm not thrilled about the idea, but if someone
cool came to me and had this great game, then I'd consider it.
Just like if a great director came to me and said, "I'm doing a
film would you want to do the music?" I'd consider it.
That's not my dream job, to be honest with you. The idea of
making a cool game or making a cool software platform, now that's
wildly exciting to me! Content creation is where me and Rob are
headed.
That's sort of a direct result of what we did with Year Zero, in terms of the ARG and
presenting it. That was, from my perspective, the most rewarding
creative experience, musical or not. Being able to take this
world and present it to people in a creative way. It wasn't a
game, it wasn't a website, it was kind of all those things in
one. It was an experience where it was fun to use all the
different kinds of mediums that are available now and, in the
end, kind of creep into people's minds.
I like playing shows, and I can play shows. I've played big shows
and I've played shitty shows. I've played where people show up
and played where people don't show. But what excites me is
working on stuff like the Year Zero project more than my
current thing. I could keep doing shows. I'm pretty good at it,
but I want to fucking start something that I might suck at and
try that. You know, to see what it's like to suck for
once.
Photo:
Forrest/WireImage
Photo:
Gemnich/WireImage
Rumors can be powerful
forces in the economy, as evidenced by an 8.1 percent rise in
Photo:
Mazur/WireImage
A few weeks
ago, we told you that Thom Yorke was going to perform at the
premiere of the new ecologically-minded film The Age of Stupid on
September 21. Well, he did. And someone taped it. Now here it is,
Thom Yorke doing the In Rainbows track "Reckoner" all by himself
with an acoustic guitar. Stay tuned to the end of the clip for
some realistic-but-harsh words from Mr. Yorke about the future of
the world's economic development (via At Ease). In other Yorke
news, Kanye still loves him, and the rapper is proving his love
by streaming Thom's new single "Feeling Pulled Apart by Horses"
on his blog. Solo "Reckoner" video after the jump:
f you heard
that almost any other band was assembling a group of people to
get naked and ride bikes around a mountain, you'd probably
dismiss it as a hoax. When it's 
Photo:
Shearer/WireImage
Photo:
Kravitz/FilmMagic
